cheesygirl

Doctor Who Spoiler Photo Circulating...A Pony Discussion, of course!

There is a spoiler photo making the rounds. A photo of David Tennant in costume as Ten and two other actors. This is about that photo.

One of the two actors is John Simm. The other is Timothy Dalton, from James Bond. Yes, I am serious! John is looking rather blond. And Dalton is looking rather Time Lordly. Now...those familiar with the essentials of the pony theory know that the Master is crucial to the idea that the Doctor can switch bodies. In order to make the metacrisis something ordinary to Time Lords...we need the Master. I imagine lots of you remember why...but just to recap in a way that addresses the fanboys who are all over Gallifrey returning.

Okay...that could still be the storyline...Gallifrey returns. Dalton plays one of the major Time Lords...or the Doctor's father...or Rassilon...or the Valeyard. It's all very possible that any sort of situation could be coming up here. But the salient point is...the MASTER. Wasn't he cremated, for the third time? He died in the Doctor's arms...but...wait...he's not dead. Of course, I know that keeps happening. Nobody is surprised that the Master isn't really, truly dead, but only MOSTLY dead. :snickering over the Humperdinck reference: But how? How does the Master keep on surviving after death?

Well...mostly...he gets a new body.

We know this. It is canon. It is canon from the Keeper of Trakken and from the Doctor Who Movie with Eight...and from Last of the Time Lords. The Time Lords have a way of transferring a consciousness from one body to another...and after they do that, the same man goes on. Again, we have to ask, if the John Simm Master meets the Anthony Ainley Master...are they the same man? Yes, they are. Even though they actually have different bodies...not just regenerated bodies...they are totally different species.

So...isn't it also possible that the Doctor...can do this body switch, too? That the body currently with Rose...is the Doctor's new body? Eleven is trapped in that body. He's the proper Doctor. The next Doctor. He should be going on with his adventures...but, for some reason, Ten is going on with the regenerative body.

There's been some talk about Dalton playing the Doctor's father. Another famous actor has, it is rumored, been cast as the Doctor's mother. But what if, among Time Lords, reproduction is like a metacrisis? What if Dalton (the mythical OTHER) gives some cellular tissue and a regeneration...and his beloved gives some cellular material and a regeneration...and VOILA...new Time Lord? I think we saw this happen with Ten and Donna. They kept going on about how Ten and Donna were not married. And yet, they perform an act of procreation together. They reproduce. In like Gum On Your Shoe...I point out that Ten 2 is actually the child of Ten and Donna.

This is a complex idea...because it depends on something going wrong with a process we don't fully understand...Metacrisis. I don't believe the Doctor intended to involve Donna in the process. I do believe the Master intended to involve Lucy Saxon in HIS process though. Because for all of this to be properly explained...we need to reference two things. 1) We need to see that the Master is still alive...and he needs to explain how he did that...how he was in two places at once...and switched his consciousness to a new body. 2) We need to see how Time Lords reproduce...how the Doctor came to be in the first place...to let us understand that he can go to Rose...and also go on...and still be THE DOCTOR!

This photo...addresses both of those needs. Basically, both Simm and Dalton appear in flashbacks. One showing how the Master Metacrisis worked...and one showing how the Doctor came into being in the first place. And so...the Pony is still alive and well.

Rae
You...you *awe* me. What an amazing gift. It's convoluted -- and practicable! Astonishing!

I haven't yet seen any photos, so I'm off to have a look for 'em.

P.S. - ...You know...hmmm...I think I'd read of the mother-casting...and by gosh, I wish they'd have gotten Felicity Kendal for *that* role instead of the lame part she was lumbered with in season 4. What say you to a Doctor with a free-spirited mother as a role model and in his genes?
Thank you for the compliments re: my mind
...and it's convoluted, yet practical ways. :grin:

This is why I get particularly frustrated with naysayers, people who just go...well...we can't do this because...

And then they give some reasons that is only an obstacle if you have no imagination. Now, I suppose, there is nothing that says a fan of a show needs to have much imagination...but the head writer certainly should. And RTD has consistently shown that he's quite creative...so I won't rule out that he's done something amazing that I don't quite grasp. I will however sniff at someone who says "Well, you just CAN'T do that!" Because...of course you can do it...you just need to think about what's already been done...and make the circumstances fit.

Could all of these pieces add up to another picture of the finale? Of course they could...but still...explaining the Master surviving...is sort of part and parcel of getting our Pony. So a blond version of the Master...is very good for us.

Rae
pony! pony!
Once again, I'm totally in awe of your ability to sort through this mess and pull out something that is internally consistent and logical (within this crazy Whoniverse). I haven't seen the pic yet, but I'm unsurprised about Simm. The CSM from X-Files ain't got nothin' on the Master when it comes to I-died-yes-really-oh-wait-now-I'm-back. And after that shot of the ring at the end of TLotTL, I think we've all been waiting. I was actually in the camp last summer waiting for the Master to appear in the Series 4 finale, thanks to Donna hearing the heartbeat/drums and liking clunky jewelry. (Plus, how RTD would it be to go Daleks AND Davros AND Master?)

Can we assume it was Lucy picking up that ring? Do we have any pics of her on set? I think it's reasonable to say that she's involved with the Master's regeneration process somehow, either as a keeper of the ring (that's really something like a stop-watch and hold his consciousness), or as the human half of a metacrisis. (Or, heaven forbid, a Lucy-as-a-horcrux type of thing.)

I like your theory on taking a little bit of genetic material here, and a regeneration there (with a chocolate coating to make it go down easier) and VOILA. But, couldn't it be even easier than that? In The Five Doctors, didn't the council like just offer the Master a fresh set of regenerations for helping the Doctor, like it was no big deal? And, yeah, I know what the moral of the story was re Rassilon's secret of immortality. But the Master didn't even raise his eyebrows when the council dangled a new set of regenerations, so it must have been possible. Back in the glory days, they must have been able to wave the magic whats-it of Rassilon and give a Time Lord a new set of regenerations. (Of course, then you wonder why anyone would try to discover Rassilon's secret to immortality if you can give out fresh sets of regenerations willy-nilly. Not the strongest episode when it comes to internal consistency...) So maybe if the Time Lords (any of them, for whatever length of time) are back, this special power would exist again and could be bestowed upon the Doctor?
Re: pony! pony!
Actually...yes...much depends upon that offer. What isn't stated is HOW they were going to do it. I believe it is very easy to do...part of the whole process of creating new Time Lords...happens all the time.

And yes, it could just as easily be a switch engineered by the return of the time lords. I mean...if they are back...they can switch Doctors easily enough...as a punishment...or a reward...or a reward wrapped in a punishment.

However, the salient points I've made is that the Time Lords offered that next set of regenerations in The Five Doctors and then bestow it upon the Master in reality. We learn this in Utopia...that they went ahead and gave him those extra regeneration. However, the real answer is how do we tie in the Master AGAIN to it all. And more importantly for the pony...how is Ten 2 involved?

What I''m saying is that there is a process which we have seen from a few angles in the show...that allows Time Lords to switch bodies. We see it offered to the Master in the Five Doctors and delivered to him later in Utopia/Last of the Time Lords. We see no evidence that the Doctor and Ten 2 are surprised by the "instantaneous biologicial metacrisis." They are only appalled by Donna being involved and the result of a half-human Time Lord.

So, what I'm saying here...isn't that there is a simpler process...but that it is all the SAME process. The only difference is that the Doctor hasn't accepted that it can happen with a human. The Master, being much more of a renegade than the Doctor and also, frankly, much more willing to mingle with other species...went to the idea, first. He thought...hmmm...let's see if we can just use Lucy Saxon as a mother figure? Even if we assume that there can just be a gift of regenerations...the MASTER got a new body...twice...now three times. I say that's all the same process...and that process is biological metacrisis.

Rae
Re: pony! pony!
We see no evidence that the Doctor and Ten 2 are surprised by the "instantaneous biologicial metacrisis." They are only appalled by Donna being involved and the result of a half-human Time Lord.

Ah, I see. So the "handy bio-receptacle" is similar to however the Master has been getting new bodies, and perhaps serving a similar function to the looms (but with humans involved).

In this scenario, where would Jenny fit in? She's given DNA, but no regeneration energy. But then she dies and comes back *in the same body*. What are the implications for Ten 2 (or Ten if you think Eleven's inside Ten 2) then? They both have DNA and regeneration energy inside them. ...I really need to rewatch Series 4. I kind of threw my hands up midway through and then just angry at every episode after that.
Jenny fits in, too.
Because if you listen to the Doctor talk about why Jenny isn't a Time Lord...he says it is about sharing. Another big, clue in my mind to what RTD had planned. Jenny isn't a Time Lord because there was no metacrisis to create her...nothing was shared as it is shared in the Donna/Ten or Lucy/Master or Other/Doctor's Mum situations. All that happens is Jenny is made from the Doctor's DNA...not a regeneration...not a sharing of his pain, memories and past. Ten 2, however, had all of that.

Ten 2 and Ten believe Ten 2 can't regenerate in his part human body. And they could be correct about that. But I imagine the Master found a way around it. Either by completely consuming Lucy Saxon...or by some other method. Alternatively, the Master didn't bother to switch consciousnesses with his doppleganger but instead simply overwrote him. It is possible that when a Time Lord is ready to marry and settle down...he creates a copy of himself with his beloved. Then the copy goes on to serve. So...the Time Lords offered to allow the Master to reproduce in The Five Doctors...creating a new self...there by...gaining new regenerations.

It is possible that the human/gallifreyan Time Lords can't regenerate. And so it was the Master 2 that died. But it is more likely that the Master found a way to transfer the regenerative power to his new body. This is what I hope Ten will do for Ten 2. But any body switching scenario works for me...and for the pony. All we really need to have happen is to have Ten 2 go on as the Doctor and Ten go to Rose. And if the Master can go on in another body...then the Doctor can, too. I'm saying that it is possible, given the canon we already have, to make this an ordinary part of time lord life...rather than something extraordinary.

And to make the only extraordinary part of all this...Donna being involved and surviving it.

Rae
Re: Jenny fits in, too.
Wow, that makes so much sense about Jenny, and you're right about Lucy on set too. You really have got this all figured out! I'd pay good money to be sitting on your couch when the special airs just to hear you analyze everything during the commercial breaks.

Thanks for sharing your theories, and thanks for letting me geek out all over your post. =)
You could end up paying good money...
...to hear me cry out in despair. :grin:

I have had enough disappointments in other writers to know that just because I can fit all of the pieces together in a completely satisfying way...there is no reason to assume we won't have an unsatisfactory end to it all.

It is important to know that I glean most of my theory from watching what RTD has given us on screen. So there is nothing here that comes from left field. RTD could very well have been on this track all along. He could also be completely unaware of these pieces of the puzzle and be busy creating some other scenario. But I do think the basic notion of switching Doctors is soundly within the canon. And many of the spoilers seem to support the ideal circumstances for explaining how a Doctor switch works.

I mean...I needed John Simms and I needed some Gallifreyan references...I needed Billie on set...and I needed Catherine Tate back...and I needed Wilf. And we have all of those things, now. So...a pony is definitely possible. Fingers crossed that RTD and I are on the same page here.

Rae
who promises to re-enact my reactions for you all if the specials do go as I hope they will. How's that?
Re: You could end up paying good money...
who promises to re-enact my reactions for you all if the specials do go as I hope they will. How's that?

I'll take what I can get. I'm sure even the re-enactment will be brilliant. =)

You could end up paying good money to hear me cry out in despair.

Yeah, we might be yelling at our TVs a lot this year. I'll get used to disappointment (*snicker*), and then it'll be a lovely surprise if RTD's ideas are half as awesome as yours. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
As for Lucy on set...
There were several women in disguise at various shooting sites. Two of them, I believe, are Camilla and Billie. But I also think that Lucy could have been there. We don't really need a huge amount of footage with these people. So the set visits are only for flashbacks and can be undercover. The thing about Lucy is that she takes the ring to the new body...and she is consumed. WE don't really even need the actress. We can see her fingers picking up the ring...and sliding the ring on his finger...then she's in a shroud of regenerative light...like Donna. Only instead of stopping...the fire consumes her completely, as it would have consumed Donna if she and Ten 2 had stayed in the same universe.

Suddenly, Ten is saving Donna by giving up his own happiness. Very heroic.

Rae